<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Leigh Honeywell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leigh@hypatia.ca">leigh@hypatia.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On 10-06-28 03:38 PM, Tiffney Mortensen wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
I might be totally wrong, but I don't see how men, unlike women,<br>
would ask more money just because they are men.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
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The short answer to this is that women are pretty consistently, repeatedly punished in our culture for asking for stuff and negotiating about stuff. So it's not "because they are men", it's "because that's what men are trained by culture to do and women are trained not to do". See below.<div class="im">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
I think culturally women are conditioned to refrain from asking for<br>
anything, being seen as natural "givers" and "nurturers." Even in<br>
societies where gender equality seems more or less obvious, women can<br>
be less likely to make demands that may be perceived as<br>
confrontational. I'd need to dig up the studies I'm thinking of to<br>
back it up, but men in general are more likely to object to being<br>
mistreated and more likely to ask for more than what they are<br>
offered.<br>
<br>
Tiffney<br>
</blockquote>
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There's a great book about the issues around gender and negotiation:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://womendontask.com" target="_blank">http://womendontask.com</a><br>
<br>
I can't recommend it enough.<br>
<br>
Some short summaries of the work are here: <a href="http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2007/07/30/negotiation_gap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2007/07/30/negotiation_gap/index.html</a> and here:<br>
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/29/AR2007072900827.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/29/AR2007072900827.html</a><br><font color="#888888">
<br>
-Leigh</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>Not discounting the cultural factors, because certainly the solution to this will be cultural - encouraging women that it's ok to ask for more - but there is also scientific basis that women take fewer risks. There is also enough out there linking testosterone to aggressive behaviour, and we know that men have more of that than women do. I don't point this out to excuse it, but if the cause really is rooted in biology then different tactics might be needed to solve the problem.<br>
<br>Though interestingly, one of the issues with gender equality is _men_ not demanding enough in our society. I have several friends in Sweden, all with children and all households with two working parents. Each parent gets 6 months parental leave - usually the mother takes hers first, then the father takes his when she goes back to work, so the child is home with a parent for at least the first year. It's not at all unexpected for a father to leave work to pick up a sick child from daycare. <br>
<br>Personally I've struggled with the side-effect of feminism that taking care of your own child is seen as disappointing, unambitious, unimportant. I would really love to see a shift in our society towards what my swedish friends get to have.<br>
<br>-Majken<br>